Marketing Committee Meeting 20191120
Date: 2019-11-20
Time: 12:00 UTC
Venue: irc #idempiere-mc
Called by: Marketing Committee
<barg4barg> Hi!
<CarlosRuiz> Hi
<druiz> Hi
<barg4barg> interesting if otthers know the place to meet
<druiz> Chuck is in the other channel
<druiz> I haven't heard from Matt, Adam, Marco or Pedro this week
<barg4barg> will chuck come in?
<barg4barg> #idempiere
<CarlosRuiz> Chuck is not answering
<druiz> Should we wait 5 minutes to see if he joins this channel as well? or start without him?
<CarlosRuiz> we are 3/8 from the marketing committee - 4/8 with Chuck
<barg4barg> do you have another meeting after this one&
<CarlosRuiz> yes - in 54 minutes is the general wednesday meeting
<barg4barg> Hi Luis))
<CarlosRuiz> I would not like to make decisions without quorum, but I would like to exploit that Eugene is here to understand your case about end-users
<barg4barg> agree
<barg4barg> Do you want me to start?
<CarlosRuiz> yes
<barg4barg> thank you
<barg4barg> I posted my thougts on the topic recently
<CarlosRuiz> yes - I read it and I'm curious to understand your case better
<barg4barg> the point is that if we are in demand driven situation it is the end user companies that get interested in (1) open source ERP (2) iDempiere as a best of OS ERP (3) implementer
<CarlosRuiz> OK if I ask you some questions about your implementation?
<barg4barg> go on
<CarlosRuiz> you said you're CFO - and you're in charge of IT
<barg4barg> yes
<CarlosRuiz> deciding for an ERP is a long process usually - how was that process in your company?
<barg4barg> i was the main person who was responsible
<barg4barg> I collected a number of possible solutions, compared them, pithced some of them to other chief managers in the company
<barg4barg> and finally we decided to go with iDempiere
<barg4barg> there were several proprietary ERPs in the list. Some expensive, some not. I met people from them.
<CarlosRuiz> I feel like I'm over simplifying - but I tend to think about your case as a self-implementor - you decide to do it yourself with your IT team, and a team of functional experts
<CarlosRuiz> so - for me you're still an implementor - just that you are dedicated to a single customer
<barg4barg> iDempiere had number of good things in it so we decided to try it
<CarlosRuiz> parenthesis -> Hi ChuckBoecking - are you with us?
<barg4barg> but a have a different focus than implementor
<barg4barg> I want ERP help the business and this business is not an IT
<barg4barg> I want to control my ERP, yes/
<LuisAmesty63> Carlos, and Eugene, after reading your email i made a reflexion:
<barg4barg> to conrol my ERP and my costs of ERP but the main focus is manufacturing, wholesale and retail
<LuisAmesty63> Idempiere must be able to sell to CTO, CFO as the end user of the product.If we focus only on developers and implementers, we run the risk that those who take decisions do not see it
<barg4barg> yes Luis that is the point
<druiz> That's the whole point -> "idempiere must be able to sell"
<druiz> iDempiere is not for sale, you don't sell iDempiere
<CarlosRuiz> barg4barg, how do you benefit from iDempiere having a more sexy website? (I'm not questioning, just trying to get your point of view)
<druiz> Eugene didn't buy iDempiere, he decided to implement iDempiere
<barg4barg> no it is not about selling
<LuisAmesty63> i mean sell the benefits not the product
<druiz> it's a whole different process than just buying a proprietary ERP and using it in your company
<barg4barg> it is about confidence of CEOs and other guys from end user firms that this is professioanal and reliable solution
<barg4barg> yes, sell the benefites not the product. Make them want their ERP be free, best of the class and professional
<CarlosRuiz> note I see and understand there is a benefit, but from your point of view - you already made a decision, how does it benefit to you if the website is better?
<barg4barg> Make them mistrust SAP, Axapta and other solutions as overpriced and slow in development
<barg4barg> "how does it benefit to you if the website is better?@ - as and end user I want be ibn a good and professional company for years ahead
<CarlosRuiz> BTW - I read recently this series of 5 articles -> https://www.infoworld.com/article/3451369/a-cure-for-unfair-competition-in-open-source.html
<CarlosRuiz> recommended reading
<barg4barg> I want this project to thrive
<barg4barg> i will read it +
<CarlosRuiz> so, I'm interested in understanding the business models that we want to support from our community
<druiz> I understand your point Eugene and Luis, I gave my opinion on it last week. It is important for the project to say clearly the functional benefits as well, in fact, this would help the implementers to sell their own solutions, which should lead to attract more implementors
<norbertbede2> hi all
<druiz> The thing is, I don't see end users as our main target market, because they do not contribute back as much as implementers (you're a special case because your company has an IT department in charge of maintaining the ERP, which makes you a self-implementors more than an end-user)
<CarlosRuiz> ok, understood Eugene, thanks for clarifying - we have the same goal "this project to thrive" - with some minor differences in our desired target
<druiz> Hi Norbert
<CarlosRuiz> Hi norbertbede2
<barg4barg> -The thing is, I don't see end users as our main target market, because they do not contribute back as much as implementers- agree but implementor must have them and they generally do not trust anythig that looks unpolished
<druiz> Therefore, my second statement
<druiz> " It is important for the project to say clearly the functional benefits as well, in fact, this would help the implementers to sell their own solutions"
<druiz> but having clear why we do that
<ChuckBoecking> I am here - have been reading since 6:12
<ChuckBoecking> sorry for deply
<ChuckBoecking> delay
<druiz> is to help implementors and attract them, not for the sake of reaching end-users
<barg4barg> " It is important for the project to say clearly the functional benefits as well, in fact, this would help the implementers to sell their own solutions" - agree
<CarlosRuiz> guys - with ChuckBoecking here we're 4/8 (enough quorum for me) - do you want to attack some points of agenda as an official meeting?
<druiz> I vote yes
<barg4barg> +
<ChuckBoecking> yyes
<CarlosRuiz> good!
<CarlosRuiz> anybody wants to propose agenda?
<druiz> I wanted to propose this one based on the results from last meeting
<druiz> Agenda
<druiz> 1) Define mission and vision statements, project values and value proposition.
<druiz> 2) Define the voting mechanism to choose the slogan.
<druiz> 3) Next steps. what is stopping contributions from current members
<barg4barg> +
<CarlosRuiz> agree
<CarlosRuiz> on the first point
<CarlosRuiz> I just saw a modification proposal from Eugene in forums
<druiz> "I would recommend to consider adding a word 'enterprise' in value proposition-
<druiz> Idempiere helps organizations grow with freedom by providing them high-quality enterprise software without restrictions, made by a worldwide community of highly skilled members."
<druiz> That's Eugene's proposal
<druiz> I agree with his suggestion, adding enterprise gives a clearer message. +1
<ChuckBoecking> +1
<CarlosRuiz> agree too
<CarlosRuiz> BTW - when we discuss if idempiere is a framework tool
<CarlosRuiz> it's not a generic framework tool - but it is a POWERFUL framework for business/enterprise software
<CarlosRuiz> so I think adding that work emphasizes that point
<CarlosRuiz> OK - so, if there were no other modifications suggested
<druiz> Should we proceed and publish those statements in the website?
<barg4barg> why not
<druiz> There was one project value suggested:I would add Diligence as a core value.
<CarlosRuiz> ah right - that was another suggestion
<CarlosRuiz> not sure if I understand the full meaning of "diligence" in english
<CarlosRuiz> but for me that doesn't sound like a core value for the project
<barg4barg> for me - it can be dropped/ there are plenty good sounding word outthere
<barg4barg> i vote - for this suggestion
<barg4barg> "-"
<CarlosRuiz> same here +0 or -1 ? :-)
<ChuckBoecking> just to confirm - are we voting on the items piecewise or in total?
<CarlosRuiz> last meeting we defined that we published the mission, vision, project values and value proposition in forums
<CarlosRuiz> and collect feedback from community for modifications
<druiz> Now we are voting on the second suggestion to add Diligence as a core value
<CarlosRuiz> so, there were just two modifications proposed - and we're voting about that
<ChuckBoecking> I vote keep current regarding values
<barg4barg> +
<druiz> +
<barg4barg> current - stated by Diego
<CarlosRuiz> OK - so - agreed also that we publish that in our web page
<CarlosRuiz> point 2? 2) Define the voting mechanism to choose the slogan.
<druiz> There are 36 proposed slogans
<druiz> Should I copy them here?
<ChuckBoecking> p[lease
<druiz> Diego Ruiz: "iDempiere. Because you deserve to be free"
<druiz> Diego Ruiz: "iDempiere. Because freedom is forever"
<druiz> Diego Ruiz: "iDempiere. Freedom is a terrible thing to lose"
<druiz> Diego Ruiz: "iDempiere. Software that sets you free"
<druiz> Carlos Ruiz: "iDempiere. Software that helps you grow with freedom"
<druiz> Carlos Ruiz: "iDempiere. Let's do it together"
<druiz> Eugene Barg: "iDempiere. Grow with freedom"
<druiz> Adam Sawtell: "iDempiere. Possible Together"
<druiz> Nicolas Micoud: "iDempiere. Your perfect toolbox"
<druiz> Martin Schönbeck "iDempiere. Enterprise software unchained"
<druiz> Yan Stevanus "iDempiere. Go Live for Best Performance"
<druiz> Marco Marchiori: "iDempiere. Community Powered Enterprise"
<druiz> Luis Amesty: "iDempiere, the right path to business success"
<druiz> Luis Amesty "iDempiere, the free way to business success"
<druiz> mrg: "iDempiere. Freedom works!"
<druiz> Patben: "iDempiere. Eliminating enterprise borders"
<druiz> Hiep: "iDempiere. driver/lead by yourself"
<druiz> Ferry Irawan: "iDempiere. Your need is your freedom"
<druiz> Ferry Irawan: "iDempiere. When needs become freedom"
<druiz> Krishna Satish: "iDempiere: Twenty Years of ERP Experience in one free package"
<druiz> Krishna Satish: "iDempiere: ERP built by the people for the people"
<druiz> Krishna Satish: "iDempiere: Democratising and demystifying ERP"
<druiz> Patric: "iDempiere. Work together in freedom"
<druiz> Patric: "Working together in freedom"
<druiz> Mohamed Dernoun: "iDempiere. be free and choose the freedom"
<druiz> Sachin Bhimani: "IDempiere Way to success"
<druiz> Sachin Bhimani: "IDempiere Make your things possible"
<druiz> Sachin Bhimani: "IDempiere Fulfill your goal"
<druiz> Sachin Bhimani: "IDempiere Achieve smoothly"
<druiz> Sachin Bhimani: "IDempiere Make ERP brilliance"
<druiz> Syed Vaisul Karne: "iDempiere. Scales your business"
<druiz> Syed Vaisul Karne: "iDempiere. Take control of your business"
<druiz> Syed Vaisul Karne: "iDempiere. Your perfect ERP"
<druiz> Omar Iskandarone: ""iDempiere. Your Perfect ERP"
<druiz> Kashif Baig: "IDempiere - Enjoy the freedom!"
<druiz> Andrzej Więcławski: "iDempiere. Open to fit Your business"
<druiz> The first question that comes to my mind is, should we add all of them to the voting process
<druiz> Do we want to act as a first filter and discard some of them
<CarlosRuiz> I think yes - let community decide
<druiz> Personally with the technical goal of iDempiere, I don't know how good and consistent is to have the word ERP in the slogan
<druiz> when we're moving towards decoupling and not limiting the project to be only an ERP
<ChuckBoecking> thinking the same
<LuisAmesty63> i agree
<ChuckBoecking> but you have to define it somehow
<barg4barg> but you have to define it somehow - agree
<ChuckBoecking> if you do not define it as ERP - then then possiblly "web-based collaborative platform
<ChuckBoecking> "
<CarlosRuiz> I'm OK if community decides for a slogan with ERP - maybe in future when we do the decoupling we create a new project name just for the core ;)
<barg4barg> "collaborative platform"... too vague IMHO...
<ChuckBoecking> how about "web-based collaborative ERP platform" with the ability to drop the ERP later
<druiz> I just noticed there are only 35, Omar proposed the same slogan than Syed in the previous message
<barg4barg> "web-based collaborative ERP platform" with the ability to drop the ERP later - smart)))
<CarlosRuiz> when there are so many options on the table, this way of voting can be useful: I find useful some ways of voting:
<CarlosRuiz> - anybody that wants to vote have 5 points - distribute the points between their preferred top (it's OK to add all points to 1 proposal, or distribute between 2,3,4,5)
<CarlosRuiz> - at the end we count the points - and maybe do a second round of voting for the top two?
<druiz> Chuck expressed his concern about putting slogans to a vote. There is a possibility of people hijacking votings to get obscure results. I agree with that
<ChuckBoecking> I am a fan of voting as a way to express preference - - but top vote should not win by default
<druiz> should we narrow the voting somehow
<druiz> My proposal would be to give more weights to votes coming from a known community member (at least one person from the marketing team recognizes his/her name)
<ChuckBoecking> I believe there are words that fit our core values "freedom" and "community" that should elevate some entries
<druiz> something like that
<druiz> "I believe there are words that fit our core values "freedom" and "community" that should elevate some entries" -> agree
<barg4barg> agree with Carlos - this approach is flexible, agree with Chuck - it is not reasonable to promise a automatic victory to a joke
<CarlosRuiz> I don't see anything bad in the 35
<barg4barg> I see 'terrible' ))))
<ChuckBoecking> There are other words like "perfect" that should remove from list
<barg4barg> its a joke ))
<druiz> "I see 'terrible' ))))" -> I agree with you, I know it was my proposal but having that word in a slogan is not preferred
<CarlosRuiz> it's a slogan - nike's slogan is "just do it"
<druiz> we don't want iDempiere to be related to the word 'terrible' XD
<barg4barg> There are other words like "perfect" that should remove from list -- why Chuck?
<ChuckBoecking> sadly - no software is perfect - IMHO
<barg4barg> understand
<CarlosRuiz> "terrible" is maybe not a good word for a slogan - but I trust community to vote against that :-)
<barg4barg> 16:00 in msk
<ChuckBoecking> I need to leav in 10
<CarlosRuiz> however - I agree - we can reserve our right to choose between the top 5 - in case we see something that is very bad in marketing terms being the winner
<barg4barg> however - I agree - we can reserve our right to choose between the top 5 - in case we see something that is very bad in marketing terms being the winner ++++
<druiz> "I believe there are words that fit our core values "freedom" and "community" that should elevate some entries" - I completely agree with Chuck because, IMHO, "your perfect ERP" or "Scales your business" sounds too generic, that does not show why iDempiere is a better solution than others, those two can be easily used by any software company and it would fit, however, freedom and community are not generic and it is
<druiz> the project's added value
<LuisAmesty63> i agree with Carlos, choose between top five
<druiz> Ok - so the poll will be conducted with not a single option per voter but a 5 distributed points?
<ChuckBoecking> +1
<LuisAmesty63> You can't vote for your ones ? right
<CarlosRuiz> the mechanism maybe would be hard to count - we need to check if maybe a google form (spreadsheet) can help with that
<barg4barg> Suggestion-Maybe before voting Carlos can post some words about the vision& those who vote must be informed in their voting
<CarlosRuiz> yes, you can vote your one if you think that's the better
<barg4barg> maybe they will drop ERP bythemslves
<druiz> Should we include the name of the creator in the voting list, I would say just the slogan to make it more transparent
<CarlosRuiz> I would suggest a google form - open for public with something like
<barg4barg> Should we include the name of the creator in the voting list, I would say just the slogan to make it more transparent +++
<CarlosRuiz> points distribution, who is the person voting, why this person think is entitled to vote
<barg4barg> just the slogan
<ChuckBoecking> just the slogan
<CarlosRuiz> agree - just the slogan
<druiz> If you guys want I can create a voting form and send it first to the marketing committee for review, once the form is approved we make it public
<LuisAmesty63> just the slogan
<barg4barg> If you guys want I can create a voting form and send it first to the marketing committee for review, once the form is approved we make it public - agree
<CarlosRuiz> I mean - when I say "why this person think is entitled to vote" - is that I think we must also be able to delete votings if we see the mechanism is being abused somehow
<barg4barg> if we see the mechanism is being abused somehow -- and explain why/ transparency///
<druiz> it could be a question like "how are you related to iDempiere's community" - just an idea
<CarlosRuiz> OK - so, Chuck needs to go in 3 minutes - do we agree on those points?
<barg4barg> +
<LuisAmesty63> ++
<CarlosRuiz> I agree with barg4barg - present the form to the MC for review before publishing
<druiz> We can discuss point 3 in the next meeting
<CarlosRuiz> :-) sorry, Diego's proposal - agree too
<druiz> Here is a summary of the meeting
<ChuckBoecking> I need to run - any last items needing vote?
<druiz> Summary:
<druiz> 1) Publish the proposed statements with Eugene's modification to the value proposition.
<druiz> 2) Create a poll where voters can distribute 5 points to various slogans.
<druiz> 3) The marketing committee chooses the slogan from the top 5 selected by the voters.
<barg4barg> +
<ChuckBoecking> +
<LuisAmesty63> +
<druiz> Next meeting at the same time next Wednesday?
<barg4barg> +
<LuisAmesty63> +
<CarlosRuiz> +
<ChuckBoecking> +
<druiz> Thank you all guys, see you next Wednesday!
<barg4barg> Thank you guys, good bye
<LuisAmesty63> Bye, Thanks
<CarlosRuiz> thank you
<norbertbede2> bb
<CarlosRuiz> barg4barg, if you still have time we can explore a bit more about the self-implementor use case
<barg4barg> yes
<barg4barg> ask any question you like
<CarlosRuiz> so, as I see you as self-implementor - I think you have many things in common with implementors
<CarlosRuiz> and I see some differences
<CarlosRuiz> let me see if you agree
<barg4barg> go on
<barg4barg> or you want me to answer?
<CarlosRuiz> the usual business case for implementors is that they are looking for more customers
<barg4barg> +
<CarlosRuiz> self-implementors are not in principle
<barg4barg> +
<CarlosRuiz> both needs the project to thrive, and both want also the project to have more functionalities
<barg4barg> self-implementors look for more functionality and reliability, IMHO
<barg4barg> both needs the project to thrive, and both want also the project to have more functionalities+++
<CarlosRuiz> well - that's interesting point "self-implementors look for more functionality and reliability"
<barg4barg> go on
<CarlosRuiz> there was a case in adempiere project
<CarlosRuiz> we were discussing in Berlin about stability - making the software easier to install
<CarlosRuiz> some people proposed to create the most simple version that doesn't require an implementor to run
<CarlosRuiz> of course such version would be just useful for small companies - hard to imagine big companies using a light version
<barg4barg> agree
<CarlosRuiz> and I remember there was a voting - and there were some implementors that voted against - considering that will be bad for their business
<barg4barg> egoism, yaeh
<CarlosRuiz> and also it was noticeable - that, and I think that's a practice since compiere - some implementors were exploiting the core being unstable
<barg4barg> hmmm
<CarlosRuiz> some implementors - and some developers
<CarlosRuiz> so, idea from them was that the core can be unstable - and they would be called to "fix it"
<barg4barg> I see this approach as limited
<CarlosRuiz> I was totally against such idea - my point was that if I download unstable software I simply dispose it
<barg4barg> +
<CarlosRuiz> so - interesting you touched that point - because implementors can have different ideas in mind :-)
<CarlosRuiz> and I think the project cannot support all - we need to find the business models that we WANT to support
<CarlosRuiz> being unstable is not one of them
<CarlosRuiz> and you as self-implementor have the opposite need - you want reliability
<barg4barg> I see this like this: we are all in the chain of creating value, and the world tends to expell smth that is not working and eats value
<barg4barg> and you as self-implementor have the opposite need - you want reliability ++
<CarlosRuiz> another potential difference between implementor and self-implementor
<CarlosRuiz> in terms of providing a solution for a problem - you just need to think in one customer
<CarlosRuiz> implementors with multiple customers tend to think in generic solutions that can be helpful for all customers - which are more expensive to develop
<CarlosRuiz> but I'm not saying that's totally your case - your telegram plugin for example is not a solution for one-customer
<barg4barg> you mean I consider only my own needs when deciding what efforts to make? probably yes
<CarlosRuiz> but I think you are maybe a special case
<CarlosRuiz> from what I've seen self-implementors tend to change core too much - and when they call me for upgrading is too hard
<CarlosRuiz> and also I've seen implementors with many customer - which every customer has a different version (crazy thing to manage, but I've seen those cases)
<barg4barg> self implementors probably may tend to be not so sharing with the project because they can be afraid that their rival in the next street will use the solution they created
<barg4barg> but the same thihg with implementors - they can be no so sharing too
<CarlosRuiz> yes - that's another business model that was very usual in compiere - and I think is not good for the project
<barg4barg> " from what I've seen self-implementors tend to change core too much@ - we try to avoid this
<CarlosRuiz> every compiere partner has its own extensions - not shared
<CarlosRuiz> also - implementors and self-implementors will benefit if there are more developers knowing iDempiere
<barg4barg> ++
<CarlosRuiz> that's a direct benefit for both
<CarlosRuiz> we need to find the business model of developers and try to help with that
<barg4barg> what can possibly drive developers to iDempiere? what are their interests?
<CarlosRuiz> now, maybe implementors would like to have many other implementors but far from home :-) - is not your case, I think it would be benefit for you if there are new implementors being formed close to you
<barg4barg> is not your case, I think it would be benefit for you if there are new implementors being formed close to you +++
<CarlosRuiz> but, I think in general - everybody will benefit if we have more implementors THAT CONTRIBUTE TO THE PROJECT
<barg4barg> +++
<CarlosRuiz> what is damaging is having implementors that DO NOT CONTRIBUTE
<CarlosRuiz> well that's damaging for implementors - but not so much for self-implementors
<CarlosRuiz> because you're not competing for customers
<druiz> Just getting in the way to address this question: "what can possibly drive developers to iDempiere? what are their interests?" - reputation - gaining experience - job opportunities - self-marketing ...
<CarlosRuiz> and money of course
<barg4barg> how developers earn money?
<druiz> that's implicit in job opportunities
<barg4barg> from implementors?
<CarlosRuiz> ah - we have similar distinction on developers :-)
<CarlosRuiz> developers that are working for a company (usually an implementor or self-implementor)
<CarlosRuiz> and developers that are free-lance
<CarlosRuiz> and I think we must have a few developers that do iDempiere just as a hobby - but that's rare
<barg4barg> see
<druiz> You have also students, like the case that Frank presented in the conference
<CarlosRuiz> I've seen many developers that are committed to the project until they work for the implementor - and then they just go away when they change job
<druiz> I think it's really valuable to support those
<CarlosRuiz> students - right - that's a nice thing to seed in the project
<CarlosRuiz> also - free-lance developers - we need to find a way to encourage people hiring them - if they cannot sustain themselves then they go and find a job - and disappear
<CarlosRuiz> when I say "hiring" them - I mean usually as free-lancers - but there are also cases where implementors hire directly developers
<barg4barg> on the other hand... as end user company i'm interested in growing developer inside the company
<CarlosRuiz> correct, all training tools are of interest for both implementors and self-implemntors
<barg4barg> i have guys from Axapta, Oracle and jther erps in my team
<CarlosRuiz> I don't know if this is common thinking of all implementors - but I have heard complains from a few
<barg4barg> if the learning curve can be optimized it will help grow o community of those who know the system
<CarlosRuiz> about the cost of hiring/freelancing an iDempiere developer
<barg4barg> 'I don't know if this is common thinking of all implementors - but I have heard complains from a few' --> regarding what
<barg4barg> see
<CarlosRuiz> I guess is a matter of offer/demand - so having more developers will make them more affordable
<barg4barg> again, if the learning curve is good than there will be more self-educated or in-company educated developers
<CarlosRuiz> but we're also competing for the attention of developers worldwide - why a developer would like to spend time in our project and not in others?
<barg4barg> agree
<CarlosRuiz> :-) I guess the answer would be the same from above
<CarlosRuiz> do you see other differences as self-implementors vs implementors?
<barg4barg> 'do you see other differences as self-implementors vs implementors?' -- the main is that for me IT is essential for the business but not the business itself. As a business I see that having freedom in ERP makes me more competitive in my business
<barg4barg> as long as i have freedom and save costs in comparison to SAP\Axapta i can try to grow a developer in house
<barg4barg> the better the learnin curve the easier is this to me
<CarlosRuiz> Thanks barg4barg - very nice this talk - it help us to understand better
<barg4barg> my guess is that there are a lot of end user companies in the world that would like to have a free ERP without a licence burden
<barg4barg> they just have a lot of doubts
<CarlosRuiz> ah yes - that makes another big difference
<CarlosRuiz> an implementor wants to have differentiator from other implementors
<CarlosRuiz> usually the first stuff that every implementor works is a different theme
<CarlosRuiz> I think is not your case - maybe you have a theme - but not as a need
<druiz> "To reduce the learning curve and the contribution process" should be one of the main goals of the marketing committee, at least from my findings.
<barg4barg> maybe it can work this way - end user companies willing to have a professional ERP solution without a licencing burden and with a freedom to develop\customise it can create a number of developers in-house
<druiz> I agree with you 100% on that Eugene,it would be beneficial for everyone. That's why last time I mentioned that before creating new content, we should find what is stopping and improving the existing tools (documentation and contribution guidelines).
<barg4barg> my guess is that with more implementations worldwide resources will come - in terms of money, hours of labour.... every dollar implementor gets comes from some end user company
<CarlosRuiz> there is something else that make me think also
<CarlosRuiz> about extensibility
<CarlosRuiz> one of our big technical goals is extensibility
<CarlosRuiz> making easy to change core externally - to extend the core
<CarlosRuiz> but I think at some point there needs to be a balance
<barg4barg> how this will affect the learning curve?
<CarlosRuiz> not the learning curve - another thing
<barg4barg> balance is almost always good))
<CarlosRuiz> I have noticed the more extensible we make - it also encourages some people to have different "private" versions
<CarlosRuiz> I mean - is like if there is no incentive to contribute to core if I can solve everything with a plugin
<barg4barg> my question is - will this extensibility effort make a project more complicated or less for newcomer?
<CarlosRuiz> and many people don't share plugins - we need to find also how to incentive sharing plugins
<barg4barg> we need to find also how to incentive sharing plugins +++
<CarlosRuiz> barg4barg, it depends also
<CarlosRuiz> you can have good extension developers that don't know too much about core
<CarlosRuiz> but I'm sure a developer that knows more about core is a lot more productive that one that doesn't
<CarlosRuiz> so, training a new developer about how to make extensions maybe is not a steep learning curve
<CarlosRuiz> training to understand core is
<barg4barg> see
<CarlosRuiz> but if a developer understand core it's more productive
<barg4barg> so we can agree that optimizing a learning curve can be benefitial to the project, to the developers, tj the end user companies
<CarlosRuiz> totally
<barg4barg> one of main reasons we decided to implement iDempiere was Chuck's site (1) clearly stated benefits (2) created an impression that learning curve can be optimal
<barg4barg> ok Carlos, that is it for today?
<CarlosRuiz> thanks barg4barg
<barg4barg> Thank you)))
<CarlosRuiz> sure - thanks a lot for staying chatting :-)
<barg4barg> see you next week
<CarlosRuiz> bye
<barg4barg> BTW 'usually the first stuff that every implementor works is a different theme" --> you can advertise this as a benefit for end user companies - they like to have a sense of control, they see this theme opportunity as good, really
<barg4barg> https://stabilis.one/en/homeen/
<barg4barg> the lasr word
<barg4barg> guys from Poland they do marketing of iDempiere - they are beginners in implementor business if i'm right
