Marketing Committee Meeting 20191113

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Date: 2019-11-13
Time: 14:00 UTC
Venue: irc #idempiere-mc
Called by: Marketing Committee


<CarlosRuiz> Hi guys, I think we can start the meeting now - let me tell the other channel that we're starting here
<CarlosRuiz> so, idea is to discuss the proposals from Diego about marketing - and if there are others we can expand and discuss others too
<barg4_> good
<CarlosRuiz> this meeting is intended to be more ordered than the free meetings - so, I think we could start proposing some agenda?
<barg4_> +
<CarlosRuiz> and let's try to keep it focused in one thing at a time - to avoid multi-threading :-)
<CarlosRuiz> if it becomes too complicated to follow then we can consider some kind of moderation (raising hands, etc) - but in principle we can start freely and see how it evolves
<CarlosRuiz> agree?
<druiz> Agree
<barg4_> +
<Adam_Sawtell> Agree
<druiz> if someone wants to review the condensed version of my presentation it can be found here: https://wiki.idempiere.org/w-en/images/3/3e/MarketingProposalDiegoRuiz.pdf
<druiz> We can define the agenda. I would suggest something like this:
<druiz> 1) Define how the marketing committe vs Marketing team will work
<druiz> 2) Define a final proposition on the mission, vision and project values to publish them on the wiki.
<druiz> 3) Define how to define the tagline/slogan of the project.
<druiz> 4) Review input made in the mails in the previous dates.
<druiz> Does anybody want to add/modify something?
<CarlosRuiz> for me that's ok
<barg4_> ok Diego wud you kindly expand on what is the difference bt commitee ana group?
<barg4_> team, sorry
<CarlosRuiz> ok - so, we're in the point 1 :-)
<barg4_> yes
<CarlosRuiz> for me the committee is something temporary - we're here with a specific goal, and IMHO one of the proposals of this committee would be the creation of a bigger group in the community (the team)
<druiz> That is something I wanted to address first - For what I've seen in other projects and in my findings, it is important to be open, transparent, and the best marketing content is generated by the community.
<druiz> But sometimes you get also a lot of noise, a lot of spam in the initiatives, trolls, so the committee would be in charge of keeping the direction of the team and focus on reaching the goals
<druiz> Some kind of a first filter, then the final proposals could be decided/approved by the committee and then the last word is up to the two leaders.
<druiz> Something like what Ubuntu does: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam
<marc-marc> hi everyone, I think it's ok, just some point
<druiz> They get input from everyone but at the end of the day, the committee decides what is useful, what is noise, which ideas go against the goals...
<CarlosRuiz> druiz, when you say "the committee would be in charge of keeping the direction of the team" -> it means the team is the community?
<druiz> The team normally is a sub-part of the community, those who are interested in participating in such initiatives.
<barg4_> does team is supposed to written down somewhere?
<barg4_> or it is fluid
<Adam_Sawtell> for me i think if would be important to be clear what the committe/ group purpose is, and more importantly great some outcomes/ goals to work towards.
<CarlosRuiz> then I feel we're talking about the same thing - committee = team - I think we don't need two
<CarlosRuiz> just that we formed this committee with the people in the conference - and there are a lot of community people that can be interested that was not in the conference (or forgot to raise hand there)
<CarlosRuiz> so, my first idea would be to form the team (or expand the committee - we can name it any way) - calling in forums who else want to be part of this team/committee and are committed to join in some meetings and participate actively
<Adam_Sawtell> i see a marketing/ community team having a number of functions, these including outcomes like community growth, governance, financial auditing and supporting communicaiton and project visablity etc. With a clear goal in mind to support the core development team.
<druiz> At the end of the day, the "team" is just a sub group of the community, it is a fluid group, everyone can step in at any time. For me, it is just important to separate the groups to avoid spamming the general group with marketing topics that are not of interest for everyone.
<barg4_> we can start this way IMHO (committee=team), be vocal and see what will happen and adjust
<Adam_Sawtell> each one of the examples i have listed will require a level of planning, a framework and execution.
<CarlosRuiz> agree with Evgene +1 to start like that and see what happens and adjust in future if require
<CarlosRuiz> required
<CarlosRuiz> as for the Diego's proposal - we can create a new forum dedicated to these marketing discussions - in google groups idempiere-marketing or something like that
<barg4_> Adam we have no other leverage in making others participate in planning and execution except there own interest and good will to do so///
<smartjsp-PR> My apologies team .. i was thinking that we woudl use the normal IRC channel ....
<barg4_> their
<barg4_> Hi Pedro
<smartjsp-PR> any agenda of covnersation/topics in place ?
<druiz> Exactly Carlos, that's what I mean and that's a general approach in many projects, also it is something that has been discussed previously in the community to have different channels for different topics. They have proposed a functional forum, technical, Q&A, etc ...
<barg4_> Pedro you can not see the chat above, right?
<CarlosRuiz> let me copy the agenda to Pedro privately ...
<smartjsp-PR> thansk Carlos ... the current web client of IRC. does not show the previous chat .. as I can see)
<druiz> @Adam_Sawtell I Agree, the main mid-term goal of the marketing team should be helping the project to attract new contributors. The short-term goal should be improving the things that the project is currently missing, therefore my second point of reviewing mission and vision statements, project values, etc ...
<CarlosRuiz> OK, so - summarizing to see if we're on the same page
<barg4_> so we are done with bullet 1?
<CarlosRuiz> this committee (or team) will make an open to see if others volunteer to join - with some commitment to at least attend meetings and maybe do some work if needed
<barg4_> +
<CarlosRuiz> and we open a forum (and announce it) focused on - idempiere-marketing - everybody can join and discuss there - is totally open - no need of commitment
<barg4_> +
<druiz> +1
<Adam_Sawtell> +
<CarlosRuiz> thanks - we can move to point 2 then
<smartjsp-PR> +1
<barg4_> +
<druiz> So, the second point -> 2) Define a final proposition on the mission, vision and project values to publish them on the wiki.
<barg4_> for me all 3 of them (missin+vision+values) are quite good
<barg4_> i mean here https://wiki.idempiere.org/w-en/images/3/3e/MarketingProposalDiegoRuiz.pdf
<CarlosRuiz> Mission:
<CarlosRuiz> To help companies around the world to grow with freedom. To do this, we focus on high-quality code and we have established a culture that supports, recognizes, and respects our great community, so they can share their knowledge with the world.
<CarlosRuiz> Vision:
<CarlosRuiz> To be the world’s best free open source enterprise software which inspires organisations to share and construct win-win relationships with the community.
<CarlosRuiz> Our goal is to have a slim core surrounded by a range of plugins to accompany any business need.
<CarlosRuiz> Our promise is to provide reliable software and stay open source to bring software freedom to the world.
<barg4_> +
<marc-marc> well I guess marketing is supposed to have some specific features like e.g. user/customer needs and market-orientation
<CarlosRuiz> Values:
<CarlosRuiz> ● Fairness. ● Respect. ● Diversity. ● Collaboration ● Inclusivity. ● Transparency. ● Quality. ● Freedom. ● Attribution. ● Think of the greater good.
<druiz> Not everyone was in the workshop, an important thing to mention. A technical goal of the project, defined by Heng Sin and Carlos, is to decouple of the business functionality from the core, and have a light core that works as a development framework surrounded by many plugins that support the business funcionalities.
<marc-marc> if we do marketing we should try to focus on marketing
<CarlosRuiz> just copying here from Diego's presentation - this meeting will be published somewhere
<Adam_Sawtell> I agree, maybe set a time for review and collate any amendments of submissions. Once a time to review has been complete, the comittee agrees to progress with the content we can then set n annual review timeline to ensure these always allign to the community
<druiz> That's why the mission and vision statements do not mention the word ERP, for example, it should go beyond that ...
<barg4_> marc. it is ok to start in marketing with main pillars like mission and etc
<barg4_> it does not mean it is the end of the road
<barg4_> juast the start point
<druiz> Marc, IMHO you cannot address "customer" needs or start marketing efforts, if yo do not know who you are and where you want to go (goals and dreams)
<druiz> Therefore, it is necessary to define first these statements
<Adam_Sawtell> agreed Diego
<barg4_> i work for brand that 99% of moscow and moscow region inhabitants are aware of (25mln people) This brand has started with mission etc
<barg4_> it is common to start with
<CarlosRuiz> well - initially I like those three proposals, so +1 from my side - I like the idea too to publish them - open a delimited time for community submissions (that we review) and then make them official
<Adam_Sawtell> +
<barg4_> +
<druiz> +1
<CarlosRuiz> so, we can move to point 3 -> tagline/slogan
<druiz> I think point 3 goes in the same direction: 3) Define how to define the tagline/slogan of the project.
<CarlosRuiz> ah - I forgot to copy this one
<barg4_> in marketng you better be short and avoid negativities ('terrible') My suggestion- iDempiere. Grow with freedom
<CarlosRuiz> Value proposition:
<CarlosRuiz> Idempiere helps organizations grow with freedom by providing them high-quality software without restrictions, made by a worldwide community of highly skilled members.
<druiz> I would propose to use the same approach as the one used to design the logo back in 2013
<barg4_> which one, Diego?
<druiz> Open a thread to get suggestions, @nmicoud sent me a good one that I like it and it is not in my presentation
<marc-marc> I would try to avoid moralism, maybe we should rethink to vision and mission
<CarlosRuiz> for the logo I think there was a facebook poll
<druiz> The collect them and make a poll within the community, the most voted one becomes the official tagline
<marc-marc> freedom is a little abused, particularly in open source
<barg4_> 'The collect them and make a poll within the community, the most voted one becomes the official tagline' ++
<Adam_Sawtell> I think we need a number of submissions, including the ones Diego has submitted and then a vote - My suggestion iDempiere. Possible Together
<marc-marc> who are our competitors in OS? what more do we purpose?
<barg4_> marc has smth to say
<marc-marc> free is too generic
<marc-marc> is idempiere a more fair project? a more complete? a more open?... than others
<CarlosRuiz> agree about that - collect other slogan ideas from community and then make a poll (we decide later the poll mechanism - for these kind of things with many choices - I think two rounds voting, or distributing points is better)
<Adam_Sawtell> +
<barg4_> +
<druiz> +1
<druiz> Marco, from what I found, business OS software, directly competitors might be Odoo, ADempiere, OpenBravo, ERPNext
<druiz> Besides ADempiere, all those projects are follow the open-core business model
<druiz> Besides ADempiere, all those projects follow the open-core business model
<marc-marc> of course, odoo took away ERP from mission too
<druiz> Therefore, iDempiere is more open and truly free, hence, the use of the word freedom in the statements
<CarlosRuiz> marc-marc, about > "maybe we should rethink to vision and mission"
<CarlosRuiz> let's come back to that point - do you have another idea about vision and mission, or something you want to add?
<marc-marc> that's the reason why I think freedom sounds too generic
<marc-marc> not necessarily add, I think focus
<marc-marc> you take away ERP... and then?
<barg4_> Marco it is difficult to articulate every benefit of iDempiere right in the mission. But definately Marco is right that we need these advantages to be stated somewhere
<CarlosRuiz> good, focus on?
<CarlosRuiz> ah, I see, features (like CRM, SCM, etc) - right?
<barg4_> ok it is good - these CRM SCM MRP are good
<marc-marc> well my reason to use (I'm an user) has to do with fairness, real completeness, strictness, de-localization, this is MY personal motivation as a user..
<marc-marc> if we do marketing we should attract a community on concrete ... features
<marc-marc> freedom is not enough to loose lots of time to learn a new erp
<marc-marc> so odoo's mission is make your work environment easy and fast
<marc-marc> what's idempiere's mission?
<barg4_> to the point of Calos\Marco lines above- 'Idempiere helps organizations grow with freedom by providing them high-quality ENTERPRISE software without restrictions...'
<marc-marc> quality, good point
<barg4_> are we back to #2?
<druiz> Marco, I kindly disagree, the target market of iDempiere as an open source project is not to attract ERP users, that's the job of the implementers. Implementing an ERP is not easy, and can be tedious, therefore, normally that target market must be addressed by those implementers
<barg4_> Diego, I think we batter have both, end users interest too
<druiz> And each implementer has its own features, you saw that in the conference. BX Service focuses on distributors, Smart jsp focuses on retailers with its POS solution, Norbert focuses on user experience ...
<CarlosRuiz> druiz, but marc-marc has a point - we want to attract implementors, and implementors want to know first-hand what we have - and what we have that the others don't have
<druiz> But normally, the project wants to attract those who are willing to contribute back, implementers is a case
<barg4_> there are end companies outhere that do a lot of software by their own team It wud be good to have them attracted
<marc-marc> are you sure? the goal is to have implementors?
<CarlosRuiz> not just that
<CarlosRuiz> our goal is to have implementors - but also developers - and there are other stakeholders that we want to attract too
<Adam_Sawtell> Apologies gents, I need to take leave. Its 130am her in Aus, i look forward to reviewing the further discussion points at a later time. thank you all, chat later
<smartjsp-PR> my 5 cents .. perhaps .. it would be good to separate the benefits of these diferentes groups: benefits for end customers (quality, autonomy, innovation, and so on) and benefits for implementors (creation of value. hiber level of innovation, creation of new line of busineess for a glboal markets) ...
<barg4_> ERP vendors advertise their software to end users not to implementors/ You can see this from their websites
<CarlosRuiz> thanks Adam_Sawtell - we understand - thanks for joining us so late
<marc-marc> I always thought that implementation is a cost... sorry I was too long
<smartjsp-PR> that soudnds like a separte section (benefits) .. not necesssary to be included in the mision.vision ... i guess
<marc-marc> anyway, very interesting for me
<druiz> I agree that they want to know what iDempiere has than others ERP don't. But those functional features are easy to copy, if the project would decide to do so, we could copy the Odoo's usability, and the the mission of Odoo would lose strength
<druiz> That's my opinion
<CarlosRuiz> we can have both - I think it adds value - written in a clear way - because we are a development framework - with an ERP on top
<druiz> I mentioned only implementers, but contributors can be developers, marketers, functional experts, designers ...
<CarlosRuiz> but from marc-marc and smartjsp-PR comments - I think we need to come back and discuss something more fundamental
<barg4_> my point do not throw away end users/ they will come to the website of the Idempiere see benefites of iD and call implementors listed on the site
<CarlosRuiz> what is our target - I think clearly our target is not end-users - not at all
<CarlosRuiz> iDempiere as a project doesn't do - and will never do - implementations
<marc-marc> users are not only end users :-)
<CarlosRuiz> who are the users?
<smartjsp-PR> to adress the specific needs of these diferente groups of users . we can creat a differente sections for them: soemthing like: Idempeire for implementros (links to developers, technical forums, and so on) and other called. Idempiere for end customer( with benefits. directory of implementors, )
<barg4_> agree with Pedro better have both
<marc-marc> anyone who needs idempiere to organize business data @Carlos
<druiz> I want to clarify something. I am not against stating clearly what functional advantages might iDempiere have over other business software
<druiz> But we are talking here about mission and vision
<druiz> and the mission is not to provide a solid CRM, for example, I find that too generic, too easy to copy
<barg4_> Acumatica ERP dont do implementations by its team (only implementors) but they do promote themselves to the end user/ They became big success in just 10 y from zero
<smartjsp-PR> still having in mind that the focus of the core-project si not implementation (As Carlos mentioned( . it would be good to have a starting point for the normal users/customer to find that info fthe implementors , typical steps ..... for them , currently it not easy to udnerstand that difference i guess ...
<druiz> When you check for example, Tesla’s mission is to accelerate the world’s transition to sustainable energy.
<marc-marc> perfect
<druiz> they do not mention how good the car is, how many hours you can run without charging it. Because those functional features are easy to copy by the competitorsm the value of iDempiere goes beyond those functional aspects IMO
<druiz> We do need a page in the website where we can list all the functional advantages that companies would enjoy by implementing iDempiere, completely agree, but what I mean is that I would not focus on that in the mission and vision statement
<druiz> especially with the technical-goals in mind
<CarlosRuiz> so, I understand that we agree - our main target is implementors (or self-implementors) - but you say we can have some ways to ease them the work (the tools)
<smartjsp-PR> I agrre with Diego .. let's create s ahort mession . without much empahsys in benefits ....
<barg4_> regarding Mission you can be not too much specific but at some point you have to market your project with specifics to end user/ Musk is constantly tweening great specifics about sppedd? range etc
<smartjsp-PR> more focusses in the long term gals ...
<marc-marc> ok: somethin more specific than freedom, it does not meen it should be "functional aspects": for tesla it's sustainable energy, for odoo it's easyness to use...
<marc-marc> the point was freedom is too generic :-)
<barg4_> Mission as a shrot statement is + But it is not the end
<CarlosRuiz> I think freedom is a big differentiator between iDempiere and all the other competitors - I find OK to stress that whenever possible
<druiz> I mentioned freedom because based on the interviews I conducted, the majority of people chose iDempiere because it is fully open source and they had the "freedom" to customize it and extend it as they wanted, together with the support of the community, etc ... That's why I chose that word
<barg4_> freedom+
<CarlosRuiz> and I agree with marc-marc and smartjsp-PR that we are going to need some tools to help our target group (implementors) - but IMHO those are tools - not the mission of the project - having a list of features, a list of implementors, etc
<barg4_> agree
<barg4_> but don't forget end users on the way)))
<CarlosRuiz> what is "end users" ?
<marc-marc> :-)
<CarlosRuiz> I mean - are they companies? persons?
<barg4_> end user company, like ours
<CarlosRuiz> ah - that's what I called a self-implementor
<CarlosRuiz> but you're also an implementor for other companies?
<barg4_> no, people responsible for making decision whether to implement iDempiere ERP or not
<barg4_> IT managers, CEOs
<barg4_> no we do not implement for others
<barg4_> those who decide on iD ERp project are better be addressed
<CarlosRuiz> so you're a self-implementor - who decided to implement iDempiere vanilla (not a distro from one implementor)
<barg4_> CTOs, CEOs ets
<barg4_> yes
<CarlosRuiz> I suppose helping implementors will help self-implementors too
<CarlosRuiz> are you IT Evgene?
<CarlosRuiz> or financial?
<barg4_> but my point is that end user company will come to the project website BEFORE calling to implementor. If interested he will call and may implement with the help of implementor
<barg4_> i/m CFO
<barg4_> with IT under my control (growing practice world wide)
<CarlosRuiz> thanks - I'm just trying to understand the market
<druiz> Thank you Eugene and Marco, it is really valuable to have your input here from a different perspective (end-user companies). Do we agree that content to the website could be added to address the benefits of implementing iDempiere in companies but it does not really belong to the mission and vision statements?
<barg4_> yes mission can be more generic
<marc-marc> i see software user= "person that a software program is designed for": why do you stress on "implementors"?
<smartjsp-PR> Agree with Diego statement
<CarlosRuiz> agree too
<barg4_> so my input above is more about website of the project not mission
<marc-marc> I of course am an implementor... but am I so important as implementor from a marketing POV?
<CarlosRuiz> marc-marc, we need to think on end-users of course, for example when we talk about user experience - but that's not our marketing target
<marc-marc> ok
<Luis62> I entered conversation later.I will summarize with this:No end user can obtain idempiere benefits without the help of a developer or implementer.Understanding by end user who wants to work with an ERP for the company where he works or owns.
<barg4_> Luis in our case this statement is not true
<barg4_> white crow)))
<CarlosRuiz> Luis? Amesty?
<Luis62> Yes. Well you may do basic things, but when you want to be depp. You need somebody
<Luis62> As a user i mean
<barg4_> i have 3000 employees and 18 guys in IT
<barg4_> and no implementor in proximity
<druiz> I see it like this, end users are not the target market because OSS projects benefit, usually (there are some exceptions), more from implementors than from end-users. Implementors contribute back: code, testing, expertise, money ... End users might contribute testing, when they take the time to report bugs, but the input is usually much lower than from implementors
<marc-marc> In any business all "functions" are necessary. I simply remarked what I meant with "marketing orientation". Who is our customer? If the answer is "the implementer"I accept it.
<CarlosRuiz> I don't use "customer"
<CarlosRuiz> I prefer to use "target group" -> and we have several
<CarlosRuiz> implementors is maybe the most important for the project
<marc-marc> customer in a broad sense,
<CarlosRuiz> the second is developers
<CarlosRuiz> those are required
<druiz> Yes, the target market of the first approach is defined as contributors, defined initially as implementer and developers.
<CarlosRuiz> sorry, both are required - implementors and developers need each other to survive here
<CarlosRuiz> Luis62, I kind of agree with what you said, just that "developer or implementor" can be internal force in the company - as the case of Evgene
<CarlosRuiz> we're not a commodity software that you install and start running - at least not yet :-)
<druiz> We cannot forget that this is a software project and developers are essential for it to evolve, improve and keep its quality.
<druiz> Can we move to point 4? 4) Review input made in the mails in the previous dates.
<barg4_> +
<druiz> Or does anyone want to add something before we move to that?
<CarlosRuiz> that's nice - in future meetings I would like to discuss about that - our target groups - the business models that we want to support and encourage for from those target groups
<CarlosRuiz> but that's for future meetings - not for this meeting
<Luis62> Carlos, probably "developer or implementor" is a hard word. But somebody who take the learning curve. That is not easy.
<CarlosRuiz> about point 4 maybe we review the points from barg4_ and smartjsp-PR from the email thread
<barg4_> +
<barg4_> )))
<CarlosRuiz> ok, Evgene - you had some topics in the mail thread - which one do you want to start?
<druiz> Eugene, if you want we can start with your proposal to upgrade idempiere.org, That's the one I remember
<barg4_> with defining priorities in marceting
<barg4_> here is an extract^
<barg4_> Modern looking web page of the project is #1. With 3 priorities
<barg4_> World wide map dotted with implementations of iDempiere - managers making IT decisions in end user companies hate to step in a small, uknown group. They are instinctively happy to be part of something reasonably bis and stable. 'Oh, South Africa republic opted for iDempiere with 1200 users...Great!"
<barg4_> You can even consider dotting this map with 'related systems' implementations (by different color) - Adempiere, Compiere, Open bravo. Why not? You are strong and confident in your advantages over those systems. You can articulate this advantages on the right or the left to this map. When IT manager knows that he can propose a system to his boss that is 'analogous' to one that Cirque du soleil uses (Open Bravo) but with no licencing costs he will rush
<barg4_> to him.
<barg4_> End user company cases.
<barg4_> Photos. Videos.When IT manager of a prospective end user company sees with his own eyes pictures of people in shops, restaurants or in manufacturing using system in everyday activity
<barg4_> Numbers of users in each implementation case
<barg4_> News of the project. If IT managers can see all the newsof the project streamed to one place and check that news come every next day they will happily conclude that the project is alive.
<barg4_> Collecting tutorials and videos in one place. The way I was convinced to implement the system was reading and listening to Chuck's explanations (open part of Chuck's site) - not in person, just via videos and texts
<barg4_> Developing pieces of software that is considered crucial, important by the Community
<barg4_> oops - it was sliced((
<CarlosRuiz> Evgene - I agree with a better website - two comments from my side
<druiz> The thing about upgrading the website is the following, it is easy to use a CMS to give a "modern-look"
<druiz> But the problem is not the initial change or upgrade
<druiz> but to maintain it
<CarlosRuiz> 1 - the seeding of a nice website is easy/cheap - the expensive part is to maintain it - keep it up to date - generate content
<CarlosRuiz> almost the same that Diego said :-)
<barg4_> maintain - what is it? hosting? posting news?
<barg4_> ok see content.
<CarlosRuiz> 2 - about having success cases published - first I would recommend to have the discussion about business models from implementors - it's really tricky to define fair and honest rules on that information
<barg4_> agree/ but content is king
<barg4_> even content focused on develoers|implementors///
<druiz> I say that because ADempiere focused on the same thing, and now you can go to their website and it becomes really annoying to navigate in it, many broken links because I guess nobody is in charge of maintaining the content
<smartjsp-PR> i guess we should be more realistic in terms of resources ....
<CarlosRuiz> some of our competitors have big fake numbers published - I don't want that for our project - it's against our values
<barg4_> how other OS project do this content thing? Postgres f.i.?
<druiz> If I might step in, before agreeing on case studies, testimonials (which I find valuable and is one of my proposals). I think before that it is mandatory to define guidelines
<smartjsp-PR> i mean try to plan few sections . with valid content and not crate to much new ones as some of you mentioned
<druiz> Ubuntu and Postgresql have clearly defined guidelines, then if a company submits a case study
<smartjsp-PR> for examples sucess stoires are tied to the implementors .... the shoudl not be in the central idempiere site .. perhaps links to the implementors web site coudl be a good point in that case ....
<druiz> they can decide if it is published or not, but based on previously defined rules, which is important to assure neutrality and to avoid companies exploiting the position within the project.
<aguerra> barg4_i agree with you
<CarlosRuiz> I think nobody will disagree about having a better website - current one is really lame :-)
<CarlosRuiz> so, things to solve: what do we want to have -> and think about how are we going to keep it running
<marc-marc> when odoo started their marketing strategy they differetiated technical content from non-technical and published lots of short pages with business hacks, advices...
<aguerra> CarlosRuiz +1
<barg4_> how much does that cost - making maintanence on a regular basis?
<CarlosRuiz> barg4_, I guess it depends on the content you want to have, maybe we can design it in a way that is easy to maintain
<barg4_> +
<CarlosRuiz> for example, every thing that we add that is dependent on the version - will require a maintenance after every release
<Luis62> Take a look at:
<Luis62> https://docs.alfresco.com/community
<Luis62> Alfresco Community Page
<CarlosRuiz> now - a big topic is, some of the tools (list of implementors for example) are easily abused
<CarlosRuiz> so - as Diego said - we need to define guidelines first
<barg4_> Carlos you mean that there is a question who will decide who is included?
<druiz> I don't think who but how is it decided
<druiz> therefore, the guidelines
<CarlosRuiz> yes, some initial guidelines and then we adjust if we see somebody abusing of that
<CarlosRuiz> somebody also suggested me to have two separate lists
<druiz> At the end of the day the decision should be unbiased
<barg4_> on postgres they do have implementors list. that is how we found great support for our pg install
<CarlosRuiz> a list where anybody can be added - no guidelines - like a phone book - and we add a disclaimer on that page explaining that such list is not validated at all and open, so it can be "abused" and is a job from people using that list to verify
<CarlosRuiz> and a second list where we apply strict guidelines
<barg4_> why not to have these 2 lists
<CarlosRuiz> yes - I mean - that's a suggestion I received - to have 2 lists - is possible - we need to discuss that further
<smartjsp-PR> I agree that implementor's list should be validated with previous guidelines in place ....
<Erick> i think that the success stories give strength to the project in general, and it shows companies that in other parts of the world iDempiere is present
<smartjsp-PR> I do not see the clear goal of the second list neither ...
<barg4_> to my mind to have 2 lists is much better than to have none )))
<barg4_> Erick+++
<CarlosRuiz> agree - that's also another tool that can be easily abused - success stories - they require also strict guidelines
<aguerra> ++++
<Erick> +++
<barg4_> how success story may lead to abuse? beein fake?
<Luis62> ++++
<smartjsp-PR> sucess stories are good, but it should be links (reviews with guidelines) from the central idempiere location to the implementors website, because those belongs to them i guesss. and athat . simplified the maintenace of those stoires in the central idempiere web site as well ...
<druiz> -> fake stories, exaggerated stories
<smartjsp-PR> barg_ i th sucess storeis belogns to the "trusted/tested 'implementors ... that create a cicle of trust i guess . and simplofy to use them ... from global site but maintined by the local temas ...
<smartjsp-PR> you can take a looks to our sucess stoies for examples ....http://www.smartjsp.com/web/en/success_stories
<smartjsp-PR> they have stanadrs descripcions .. industry category .... achievements .. and some screenshots ..
<barg4_> Pedro I agree that this approach is balanced - there is a short bullet in main iD site with a link to a broader info on implementors site
<barg4_> well done Pedro)))
<smartjsp-PR> as many of them are related witht the speficic idempiere distros: (SmartERP in our case) it also includes additional benefits/ achievements related with the local service of the implementor and the plugins and so on ....
<CarlosRuiz> point is also -> just for implementors that deserve it
<CarlosRuiz> those who contribute to the project
<CarlosRuiz> those who publish easy to install plugins - and useful for community
<druiz> I think before thinking on adding new content, which is needed, as a first step, at least on this meeting focus on improving the existing ones and creating the needed one that's not there.
<marc-marc> we should have ad editor who selects content, style, etc
<CarlosRuiz> BTW - in the workshop we discussed a bit about guidelines for plugins too
<druiz> Contribution guidelines to help the people contribute easily
<druiz> bug reporting guidelines
<marc-marc> I don't think if we categorize content we get some point we're too much
<druiz> Documentation
<Luis62> A community Manager
<druiz> Collect all the external resources of documentation and blogs in a single page in the website
<aguerra> druiz.... yes +++
<druiz> there are many blogs mentioning iDempiere unknown by the community, that might be easier as a first step, we do not need to create that content, it is already there
<druiz> we just need to link it
<Luis62> druiz.. yes +++
<barg4_> how this can be achived?
<Luis62> Somebody has todo it. a CM
<barg4_> it requires working hours
<barg4_> if smb says this work is supposed to be paid for I tend to agree
<druiz> If that's the case we need to think of that, usually somebody raises the hand and decides to do it.
<druiz> But my point was to focus first on those actions, and then decide to create new content
<druiz> Adding here links to external resources: https://www.idempiere.org/documentation
<druiz> Every time someone finds one can add it there
<druiz> And in terms of guidelines
<druiz> I don't think someone should be paid for that at this moment
<druiz> It is just a matter or defining those guidelines that the two leaders and the community think are important for contributing, reporting bugs, etc ...
<druiz> Chuck started writing a book: http://erp-fundamentals.chuckboecking.com/basics/, he is working on that, that could be a starting point
<druiz> for improving documentation
<barg4_> are we going to discuss these guidelines now?
<CarlosRuiz> I can't
<CarlosRuiz> I need to go out soon
<CarlosRuiz> maybe we better schedule next meeting?
<barg4_> +
<barg4_> impressing thing from Chuck... looks serious
<CarlosRuiz> if you are OK - next week we do it one hour before the general meeting - to make it easier for Australia this time?
<barg4_> +
<druiz> A summary of the meeting.
<druiz> Summary of the meeting:
<druiz> 1) Create a sub-group for marketing on google groups.
<druiz> 2) Publish the proposed mission and vision statements, project values in that group and set a time for suggestions and ammedments.
<druiz> 3) Publish the actual proposed taglines/slogans and collect new ones from the community. Adding these two:
<druiz> Eugene: "iDempiere. Grow with freedom"
<druiz> Adam: "iDempiere. Possible Together"
<druiz> 4) It is important in future meeting to define marketing tools for end users -> functional aspects, benefits for companies using iDempiere ...
<druiz> 5) We need to define guidelines before proceeding to create new content.
<druiz> I think we can proceed with 1, 2 and 3
<barg4_> +
<marc-marc> +
<CarlosRuiz> great Diego - thanks for the summary - we'll move then some of that to forums
<druiz> And see if there is enough input from the community this week and we can go ahead and make further decisions in the next meeting
<Luis62> Thanks Diego
<barg4_> regarding time Chuck is in other part of the globe than Aus
<CarlosRuiz> so, next meeting
<CarlosRuiz> https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converter.html?iso=20191120T120000&p1=24&p2=tz_cot&p3=1440&p4=37&p5=166&p6=5
<CarlosRuiz> wed nov-20 12:00 UTC
<druiz> For Chuck would be 6AM if we meet one hour before the official meeting
<CarlosRuiz> agree?
<druiz> I think that's better than midnight in Australia
<barg4_> agree)))
<barg4_> thank you all guys )))
<CarlosRuiz> thanks!!!
<aguerra> thanks!!!
<druiz> Thank you guys, it is really nice to see people so engaged and motivated, let's keep it like that :)
<druiz> Have a nice week everyone
<Luis62> thanks
<smartjsp-PR> thanks everyone ... have a great day
<aguerra> (y)
<marc-marc> thanks